True, but with an East Coast bias. What about USC?

I concur that leaving USC out of this article is absurd as they have one of the top real estate programs in the world.

The salary numbers for the MBA programs listed were completely wrong and over even average salary + bonus.

The NYU "survey" isn't sourced and is extremely dubious. NYU grads don't make more than those from USC, Cornell, MIT or Columbia and those NYU MSRE "salary" numbers are way above everyone - include Harvard/Stanford/Wharton MBA's.

Someone needs to back and do some real research next time. Start with US News and Business Weeks MBA rankings.

I concur with the others. USC should be included and while I don't know much about compensation for real estate degrees I do know that the MBA numbers are flat out wrong.

Columbia University gets over 5000 applications. Best programs are Columbia, MIT and USC bar none.

Here we go ,, go go gagets.............. gooooooooooooo

i need a CONVENTIONAL constructuion loan for 9 million dollars--in Mahhattan

the plans, specs and permits have all been completed--full documentation

This article shows lack of research/study obviously. They are missing Columbia MSRED program which is a very popular/competitive one.

*Cough* NYU plant *Cough*

Clearly, there is a bias against Columbia and USC in this article. Either that or the writer is just misinformed...most likely both. NYU MSRE has relatively low admission standards compared to Columbia, MIT and USC's real estate programs. These programs are generally heralded as the best in the country. Cornell and Baruch also have great Master's programs, although they are not as well known as the others. Not to take away anything from NYU's program (because it is a great program) but when writing an article about Real Estate education, it's necessary to convey the various options available.

First, the salary numbers in the article are wrong. For NYU the average is misleading because there are so many people in the program with different experience levels and backgrounds. The true avg of someone with 3-5 years of experience and an MS should be $90K+20k bonus, on the east coast. USC, Cornell & Johns Hopkins should have been given more exposure in the article. About the NYU program;

NYU program is less competitive than Columbia but it is more thorough; its more credits, better flexibility and better connected faculty. Having said that the program has some serious downfalls. The program is too big and quality control is seriously lacking. You have kids from Jones Lang Lasalle and real estate IB firms sitting next to undergrads who are 1 year out of school and 35+ year folks who seek a career change from unrelated professions; awkward mix to say the least. NYU resources are great but the RE institute (for the money it charges) gives back very little to students. We have a RE library that will not lend books, has decor from 1970’s and can accommodate only ~30 people from a class of 600+. We have Argus on pcs but are not allowed to use them. Labs are only open 1-2 hours every other day. The academic advisors are less than cooperative and frankly rude. Most administrative departments here sit in walled offices behind moats of red tape. Career services are a joke. Teaching quality and consistency are also lacking. Most professors are amazing. Others plain suck. The program itself is probably one of the best in the country in terms of real estate finance. The administration of the program is hands down, one of the worst. There are still pleant of brilliant kids in the program that will get $130k+ jobs. The weak ones that the school let in out of greed, will be left to fend for themselves-they dont know that yet and think the NYU name will work wonders, it will not. NYU REI Networking is great. Most students get to know each other and go out of their way to help each other out. Most of the activities that benefit students are ACTUALLY planned and arranged by students. This is def not a program for those who want to be spoon fed.

Thats is also what i hear about NYU; great program, poor quality control and administration.

Columbia is more development focused and is a shorter program. More selective.

Agreed, to leave Columbia and USC out of this article shows the writer didn't do his homework. Ask anyone in the real estate industry that is high up and they'll tell you Columbia, MIT and USC are the leaders with NYU's being popular but a little less selective due to the 'certificate' options available to get into the program.

Thank you for all of your comments. It was very helpful in helping me decide what my options are. I just applyed to the NYU graduate certificate program. I am very excited about it. But now that I have read the comments, I think I am going to finish my certificate and head over to Columbia for the MS degree. This way I can get a more well rounded education from two of the best university's in NYC. Thanks guys.

The NYU Program, like New York City, is what you make of it. Criticisms of the NYU program are valid on many fronts but this is still one of the "top three" programs in the country for real estate. I do hear complaints, some of which i think are a result of growing pains the program is experiencing. But overall, the quality of the education you walk away with is worth the 'administrative' inconveniences. If you are serious about real estate, come to NYU.

Many of the criticisms of NYU listed in Current NYU REI Student's comments are ones typical of any large university faculty. The fact is NYU opens doors in New York City, as does Columbia.

I researched these school before deciding to table it for a year or two to get my money up and go f/t. Columbia's program is relegated to development and is only one year or two semesters while NYU's is 4 semesters with graduate thesis and has a focused finance degree concentration. Cornell looked good as well for finance but is far flung upstate and lacks the finger on the pulse connectivity that NYU has with its industry roundtables and monthly state of real estate publications and sister school elective options. For finance degree aimed at real estate it seems like the best option for me.

Google REI NYU - they were just given a $10 million capital and infrastructure improvement grant. It would be foolish not to be long on that degree relative to its East Coast peer group.

RE Masters programs to consider: USC, University of Denver, Arizona State University, Johns Hopkins, Cornell, Columbia & MIT. All of these schools have received high marks for their programs and have successfully placed graduates. I've been researching the programs for the past year.

In light of the flagrant Columbia trolling, I though I would weigh in on the discussion. Real Estate is a notoriously insular business and NYC Real Estate is exponentially more so. A powerhouse real estate master's program has to impart real world skill both qualitatively and quantitatively, provide industry connectivity and be a crucible for classmates to form synergistic future relationships.

NYU's program unlike Columbia has an extensive, comprehensive, very well respected Finance concentration and is not soely a development program;

NYU has monthly lectures on campus where students, industry professionals and their leaders discuss current and prospective trends in the market. The results of which are often quotes in the trades.

Due to its part-time option and the fact that many industry employers send/pay for their employees to attend the program, NYU students are working in a team setting with other WORKING industry professionals which allows them to network within the industry on a daily basis. Columbia's program is made up of full time students with a strong percentage of them being from foreign countries - meaning contact/network drain at graduation.

NYU's MSRE starting salary was 138k over MIT's 100k because:

a) Many students in the NYU program already hold JDs, MBAs, CPAs, CFAs, etc. and/or were being promoted past the glass real estate ceiling within their own companies.

b) The majority of the NYU grads are working in Manhattan and surrounding areas which commands an overall higher income level commensurate with cost of living increases.

Columbia WAIVES their GMAT requirement if you have worked for 2 years and has only cursory finance classes unlike some of its peers. RD stop these Columbia and MIT trolls.

The Troll incessantly bashing on NYU is a guy named Phear_Me under a series of made up handles/Ids; throughout the Net.

He is some wannabe insecure prestige whore who went to a low level MBA program and is going to MIT for an MSRED. He pathetically feels the need to bash schools like NYU to make his degree look better. We are all onto you buddy. I have read a thread specifically about you.

Stop trolling for MIT and USC, we know who you are and what you are doing.

Look him up on Businessweek and Cyburbia to name a few sites where he has adopted numerous handles to defame a host of schools, including NYU.

Stop it troll.

I think that this discussion board began with some unbiased and informative comments about the different options for a real estate education, but now it seems like an all-out brawl to place NYU at the top of all programs. Specifically, i'm aiming this at Ross_Real Estate's post#17.

"NYU's program unlike Columbia has an extensive, comprehensive, very well respected Finance concentration and is not soely a development program"

NYU has an excellent real estate finance concentration and that is far and away its strong suit. However, the Columbia MSRED, despite being a development-focused degree, provides a grounded finance base with the option of taking two advanced real estate finance courses as part of the program, as well as the option of taking two elective courses at Columbia Business School, including courses in real estate capital markets. In addition, there are optional weekly real estate finance and excel modeling tutorials that are personalized for students that need additional help in these areas. Don't make it seem as though Columbia does not provide a comprehensive finance base. All the opportunities are there for its students.

"NYU has monthly lectures on campus where students, industry professionals and their leaders discuss current and prospective trends in the market. The results of which are often quotes in the trades."

Columbia has weekly lunchbox lectures and real estate roundtables bringing together some of the top real estate professionals in the industry. Don't assume that NYU is the only institution providing these events to its students.

"Due to its part-time option and the fact that many industry employers send/pay for their employees to attend the program, NYU students are working in a team setting with other WORKING industry professionals which allows them to network within the industry on a daily basis. Columbia's program is made up of full time students with a strong percentage of them being from foreign countries - meaning contact/network drain at graduation."

It is true that NYU provides a lot of flexibility to work and study with its part-time option. This is a great advantage of the NYU program. Columbia is only a full-time program with less than 100 students per class. One could argue that because NYU has such a large student body, the majority of whom are part-time, this may hinder the development of close relationships with your peers. Columbia has a very tight-knit group of students, each of whom come in with industry experience beforehand, and place their work on hold to grow and learn from the experience and from each other. Alumni networking is strong among Columbia alumni because of the fact that these small class sizes provided a very meaningful MSRED experience. It should also be noted that typically atleast 70% of the student body ends up in NY.

I hope you didn't find this post to be an attack on the NYU program because I did not intend it to be. I truly think NYU has a great program. I just don't like when someone praises an institution at the expense of another, especially when that person is misinformed with regards to the quality of the instituion he is belittling.

I agree, both NYU's and Columbia's programs are excellent (and have produced many industry leaders) and there is a great deal of reciprocity between these two NYC schools in terms of social gatherings, joint roundtables, etc. The "all-out brawling" referred to by # 21 is simply fraternal angst and not true acrimony or anything insidious.

Everyone just needs to relax and remember that those coming out of these schools are actually MSRE brethren (and should seek synergies) in a world that has traditionally thought an MBA is the only valid post grad business degree (which I think was the underlying theme of the above article).

My peers and mentor consistently tell me that MIT is by far the best program in the country, if not the world. However, USC, Cornell, Columbia and to some extent NYU all have top programs as well. What we all really need is an objective ranking system especially with so many new programs sprouting up. Is there any resource that ranks graduate real estate programs?

Columbia is an Ivy league school with selective admissions and world class faculty. NYU has no credibility because for every smart student in class there are 3 unintelligent students and 2 taking up space to get a "certificate" in real estate. NYU keeps banking on its association with the Stern school of business but the TRUTH is that NYU real estate students cannot even take classes at Stern because they would obviously fail and Stern doesn't want to clunk up its program with a bunch of poorly qualified real estate students. The reason Stern sends students to the real estate program for real estate electives is because it's cost effective and they can inflate their real estate course list that way. A smart person can succeed in an easy course, but the fact that Stern courses are barred from real estate students says there is a clear difference in quality.

That difference is why I chose Columbia over NYU. Columbia is easily the superior choice.

The NYU Columbia flame war continues obviously unabated.

To # 24: I am a current NYU REI Master's student and have taken two electives at Stern for what it is worth. The normal elective as well as an elective given for the accounting class that I was waived out of bc of my CPA/CFA background/charter. I received a B+ and an A- in those classes.

This is not argumentative conjecture, but a substantiated fact. If you are going to "troll" for Columbia, at least have the foresight to pick a credible subject matter.

The intellectual quality and moral fiber of your posting, if you really are Columbia MSRED student, speaks volumes on the "selectivity" of its program.

---> 23/24

Looks like Phear_Me "the Menance of MIT" is back at it again people.

Q: Why are we having this debate, When:

A: Columbia:
1) Is an IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL (Halo Effect of conferred to all degree holders; heuristic of intellgence and capability on your resume)

2) Its program is the ''pride and joy'' of the school's new program initiatives [see its literature of site]

3) Has the most selective, rigorous admission process in the country, more than Harvard's school of design, MIT, USC, etc...

4) Is a full year of rigorous academic testing and standards with a thesis.

Columbia doesn't have the most selective and rigorous admission process. It doesn't even require the GMAT! At least NYU requires it for SOME of its candidates. To be frank, the most selective real estate program in new york is Cornell. It may not be the best, but it is certainly the most selective. Harvard, MIT, USC, and Cornell are all about equal for selectivity.

#29: Phear_Me is trolling again for MIT and USC. Your embedded IP address does not lie.

INTERESTING THAT MOST NYU AND COLUMBIA MSRED GRADUATES TAKE THE CONSTRUCTION, MANAGEMENT AND ZONING COURSES THAT ARE OFFERED AT NYREI.

Please clarify, what does that mean no. 31?

I reiterate:

Q: Why are we having this debate, When:

A: Columbia:

1) Is the NYC IVY LEAGUE SCHOOL (Halo Effect of conferred to all degree holders; heuristic of intellgence and capability on your resume)

2) Its program is the ''pride and joy'' of *ALL* the school's new program initiatives [see its literature of site]

3) Has the MOST selective, rigorous admission process in the country, more than Harvard's school of design, MIT, USC, etc...Look it up

4) Is a FULL YEAR of rigorous academic testing and standards with a thesis

ColumbiaMS2009:

Maybe we continue to have this debate because:

1) All Ivy League schools are not created equal, and all Ivy programs are not created equal. Sure, there is a certain prestige that comes with an Ivy degree, but it is not a guarantee of anything. Anyone who has gone to school or worked with Ivy grads can vouch that the quality runs the spectrum from dolt to genius (just like any other cross-section of the population). I can say this as an Ivy grad (Penn).

2) Relying on the program's own press releases to support the quality of the program is obviously ridiculous, but do us all a favor and post a link to this “literature” so we can enjoy the prose. (Sorry, I didn’t feel like perusing the propaganda.) NYU has some pretty flowery descriptions of the advantages of their program, too. It’s all propaganda, as well, but they do have $11 million dollars in recent endowment gifts to both back up the claim and improve the program in the future.

3) The decision to waive test requirements for applicants makes this claim dubious, as well. Sounds to me like Columbia is tired of missing out on some quality candidates to NYU and decided to join them in their own game. Wonder when part-time options will be announced?

4) A full year in the Columbia program is still less classroom time than the NYU program.

Perhaps the best evidence that there are no guarantees about the quality of the program, though, is your willingness to cut and paste your post (spelling errors and all) right back into the debate, as if repeating your faulty arguments would somehow convince everyone of your position. Maybe you should add more CAPS next time? Attention to detail (or the ability to craft a solid and coherent argument) apparently is not part of Columbia’s “MOST selective, rigorous admission process in the country.”

NYU and Columbia have different programs. NYU offers a Masters in Real Estate with a choice of concentration...finance, development, etc.. Columbia offers a Masters in Real Estate Development. They aim to bring people together with backgrounds in law, business, construction and architecture. As all of these people are the ones sitting around the tables when a development is being planned, designed or built. That said...i think everyone needs to understand that someone with a BS in construction management could be sitting next to a business major from Harvard in this program. Two completely different backgrounds coming together to learn from each other. Not stupid contractor sitting next to Ivy genius! You people need to get over yourselves!

Who cares about all this fighting? Both of the NY schools don't even have tests to get in!!! The USC MRED is clearly better than both NYU and Columbia.

The top 3 programs are MIT, Cornell and USC in that order. It's a long drop off from USC to Columbia, a long drop from Columbia to NYU and a long drop from NYU to everyone else. The only reason NYU and Columbia are even featured here is because this is a NY based site.

I don't think that's a fair comment, though it all depends on what metrics you're using to measure these programs. NYU is the oldest of the real-estate focused masters programs and the largest. Columbia was one of the first to offer a development focused curriculum. Alumni and instructors from both are among the clear leaders in the field. They clearly belong in the discussion.

For professional programs such as this, I think metrics like alumni success (job placement, salary) and alumni giving would be more helpful than GMAT scores and undergrad GPAs. I would rather know how strong these programs are at placing students in top firms at top salaries, and for seeing how well students appreciate their education as indicated by their willingness to support the programs after graduation. Not sure if there is a reliable measure of any of that, but it would be helpful.

What kinds of firms did students at MIT, Cornell, USC come from before going to school? What kinds of firms are they working at upon graduation? I can't imagine it is a long drop off from the MIT/Cornell/USC list to the Columbia and NYU lists, and suspect it might in fact be the other way around.

Last year NYUs program was given a 1 million endowment for a successful alum, this
year it was 11 million. This is a metric of the program's past success and future development.

#37 & #38 = Blatant and redundant Phear_Me Trolling.

We get it, we really really get it now, your alma and future alma are the best! Go USC and MIT!

Feel better, good.

I dont know whats more pathetic -- someone supposedly trolling these boards all the time or someone so obsessed that they claim to be psychic enough to know another persons posts in an anonymous forum. Im here try to get information and anytime someone says something this guy doesn't like he throws a tantrum so both you and "phearme" need to shutup already.

#21, #27, #29, #41

Does anyone have any real, official, salary data for the Columbia and NYU programs? As far as I can see neither school supply's this information. A link to that info would be really helpful since I am hopefully deciding for class of 2010.

thx

What's wrong with getting a Master's "Certificate" in real estate from NYU? If a Cerfificate student missed getting into the master's program by a hair, what's wrong with being able to put a certificate credential from NYU on your resume?

Not much considering that it takes 'near perfect' gpa to matriculate to the next level at NYU, so I would say the Master's cert is still a pretty substantial credential especially in the NYC RE industry.

By matriculate to the next level you mean get into the Master's program?

The NYU orogram is a 2 year master's, as opposed to MIT's and Columbia's 1 year, and a Master's Certificate given its time involvement would be a boost to your real estate pedigree from a resume and applied knowledge perspective.

Thanks for the info.