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What about the MSRED program at Columbia University?

I'm surprised that the Editor didn't made enough research, as several real estate programs are out there. Personally, I know that the MSRED at Columbia University has a high standard of faculty and alumni and by the way, a great demand of applicants. USC has also an intersting program and is also doing very well in demand. Cornell has also worked with this type of programs very sucessfully.

How is Columbia MS in Real Estate not on this list? It must be a mistake.

both of NYU's programs (the masters in RE and the graduate certificate in RE) are geared towards working professionals. none of their classes start before 4:00 PM.

It is about time real estate professionals increase and expand their knowledge about real estate to mastery levels (graduate school) besides simple broker licensing. Real Estate is so dynamic and involves so many different players: contractors, government officials, banking & financing, markets & urban as well as macro economic analytics. To truly succeed in this game as an investor, all these factors have to be thoroughly evaluated. Victor goes to the most calculated. I am a proud product of CUNY with a major in finance and double minor in real estate and economics. From what I have seen, finance & banking professionals go through more rigorous training than do RE professionals. I would like for that to change. And yes Columbia does offer a great RE program.

I have heard from a few well established developers and re finance professionals that a master of science in re development is not a well respected credential and is seen as much less serious than an MBA........any thoughts from people in a program such as columbia's?

I did my MSRED at Columbia and work now for Lehman Brothers. Most of my class mates got the job they wanted after the program.

The MSRED program at Columbia is one of the best in the world.

I got my MSRE from NYU's program and it was the determining factor in getting an acquisitions job at a large firm. MBA's are great, but they don't have that much real estate content. That explains why Stern students often take classes in the NYU's real estate institute, but hardly yhte other way around. If you have a serious undergrad degree and good employers on your resume then the MSRE is as good if not better than an MBA in the real estate world. Also the network of real estate people in the NYU program is far better than any MBA program.

The top programs in real estate are NYU, Columbia, Cornell and MIT. I am sure other programs are good but these programs are considered the top.

I graduated from the NYU RE masters program several years ago. I do feel the faculty and courses at Columbia may be stronger than at NYU but NYU's student body is mostly part-time making the NYU program a very strong place to network. My classmates all have great jobs in the industry now.

THE NYU program is only second tier - Sorry

Comment # 10: Obvious Columbia Troll

NYU MSRE grads can be seen at the highest levels of firms in the NYC real estate industry. This has to impact upon firm hiring practices and thus the power of the degree. The haters on the board are obviously venting bc they chose the wrong school and cannot live with your choice.

Comment 10 - No MIT Troll

Sure - NYU is of course much better and more prestigious than Columbia and MIT (HA HA HA)– I wonder how you are able to fool yourself that well…

NYU is a second tier program. The average GMAT for the school is barely a 560 and masters students sit in the same room as certificate students. I'm sorry but to call itself a top program NYU needs to have higher standards than just 50% percentile. Especially when the real top programs have GMAT test scores at 90% or higher.

The top programs are: MIT, Columbia, USC, and Cornell in that order.

To # 16: Funny, because Columbia waives their GMAT requirement if you are working for 2 years or more. So, effectively - no GMAT requirement AND it is only a cursory year long program with basic finance classes. NYU provides a Finance intensive program. RD Stop the trolls please.

The Troll bashing on NYU is a guy named Phear_Me under a series of made up handles/Ids.

He is some wannabe insecure prestige whore who went to a low level MBA program and is going to MIT for an MSRED. He pathetically feels the need to bash schools like NYU to make his degree look better. We are all onto you buddy. Stop trolling for MIT and USC, we know who you are and what you are doing.

Look him up on Businessweek and Cyburbia to name a few sites where he has adopted numerous handles to defame a host of schools, including NYU.

Stop it troll.

NYU is only second tier and their real estate program sucks...

Ha ha ha phear_me is back at it again

Insecure troll.

Every Monkey can attend the NY real estate program - It is only a cash cow for NYU

Get a real degree and go to MIT or Columbia

Ha Ha Ha Ha. This board is like a bs magnet for the debased Columbia/MIT trolls.

I agree, both NYU's and Columbia's programs are excellent east coast prograns (and have produced many well respected industry leaders especially in the NY metro area) and there is a great deal of reciprocity between these two NYC schools in terms of social gatherings, joint roundtables, etc. The banter between who is swinging the biggest #$^$ is as childish as it is expected.

Everyone just needs to relax on this board and remember that those coming out of these schools are actually MSRE brethren (and should seek synergies) in a world that has traditionally thought an MBA is the only valid post grad business degree (which I think was the underlying theme of the above article).

Wow, this Phear_Me character is a real low life. He is all over the net with his one man show of real estate program pollution. They need to revoke this guy's Net pass.

I have a friend who did the program at Columbia and said most of the people there either got immediate top tier employment or else couldn't get a job forever. I hear USC has a great program. Not sure about NYU or Cornell but there seems to be a lot of people questioning whether or not NYU is a good program. I haven't seen anything about Cornell. People say MIT has a lot of math - not really sure what that has to do with planning or development. Have heard good things about Clemson and ASU.

Are the rankings for real estate programs included in the planitizen guides or are those only for planning?

Columbia has no effective GMAT requirement and is only one year with very little finance. It is known across columbias campus as the red headed step child of the whole school.

Columbia msred a 2 semester masters degree, that is a joke.

Agree that I heard that Columbia was the red headed step child of the school. Actually heard this from friends at Columbia who were in the humanities and arts so the reputation must be pretty far and wide across campus. I also consistently heard negative things about the NYU program. The only 2 programs that no one seems to ever bad mouth are USC and MIT. What is the general perception of the top programs? Which ones are the best?

I had been talking/reading/researching this in my prep to apply to schools. Seems to me that, USC is not get "touched" in this cyber shootout because it is on the west coast and is not really within the range of fire of the lion's share of applicants/matriculated students who are aiming for/are in New York/East Coast, widely considered the real estate capital of the U.S.

The lion's share of this constant bad mouthing seems to be a product of competitive in-fighting, more than meritorious criticism (to a great degree).

I do not think Columbia is the red headed step child of its school at all. From the students I spoke to and the coursework/syllabi that I looked it, the program can get very technical and doubt any A&H students should/could turn their nose up at the type of material they are studying or projects they are required to produce to get their master's. It is a FT career switcher program and classmates are typically not in the industy, to any great degree.

MIT's program is, to add onto the previous posts, is a one year master's, and is very development focused as opposed to finance focused (in a good way since that is the express purpose of the degree) and has some very well respected profs like David Geltner author of the seminal textbook used by many/all the top RE and MBA programs called "Commercial Real Estate - Analysis and Investments".

That said, I am planning to go to NYU since I live in Manhattan, want/need a finance focused degree to fill out my development acumen, like the fact it is a 2 year long program taught by already successful industry players/practioners, allows for a part time option in case I need to go back to work to keep paying for the education, with most of your classmates already working in the New York real estate industry because it allows for part time attendance.

NYU is only second tier !!!

I am seeing that NYU's RE program is getting bashed here. I am working in RE now for 4 years and am looking for a masters program. Can anyone highlight the differences? Which is more practical?

This would be in NYC only, I do not want to leave NY. That said, it would be either COLUMBIA OR NYU...

Phear_Me is trolling against NYU -- does this guy ever stop. Add to the substantive discussion or stop the graffiti.

Can anyone name some of the companies that typically show up at college hiring events to recruit Real Estate Development degree graduates of Columbia, NYU and Baruch?

Also, what is the most common position offered to these graduates?

REI NYU's career nights (and annual charity Monopoly Night)are a veritable whose who of NYC Real Estate's major players. The exhaustive list can be seen on the Real Estate Institute's site. Job placement is very strong amongst all stratifications on NYC's RE sector. Source - am NYU grad, 2 years out, working for a top development firm in Manhattan. All my friends from school are working and doing very well.

Am recent MSRED grad: Columbia's 'firm placement' is surprisingly not very strong with the lionshare of the graduates focused on self starting ventures. The focus is more on do for yourself than 'get picked up' by a firm. NYU's grads from what I have heard, seen anecdotally are placing in the rank snd file with top firms.

Someone has finally mentioned Baruch MS which is being launched this fall. Does anyone know anything that can help me decide if this is a program worth attending or a waste of time.

From a learning view, you will probably learn a lot if you apply yourself and take the initiative to master the material they give you as the lessons seem to be very practical, your classmates are probably working professionals in the Industry more than career switchers, you will save a lot on education costs, BUT the degree will have no if not negative prestige value and you will have to be proactive in getting a job if you want a top company as Baruch is not anywhere as close to bring plugged in to NYC real estate like NYU and Columbia respectively.

Recently graduated form NYU and given my experience I can tell you the program has far better professors, alumni network, speakers than Columbia. In addition, the program is located right on 42nd street. All of this contributes to making it far easier to land jobs with top notch firms. We did several events with Columbia students and the program just didn't seem robust -- only 1 year, not that many speakers events, no alumni base. It just didn't seem as good. There wasn't much to it, there wasn't a sense that they were connected to the NYC real estate industry.

Getting the job is what grad school is all about. No re master's degree program is going to have the recruitment program of a traditional MBA program because real estate firms simply don't operate that way for the most part. NYU's career nights, speaker's program, alumni events and the two industry conferences they hold are really the best way to connect with New York real estate professionals. It is the best out of all programs in terms of career prospects.

Ditto on Baruch. What you learn is up to you but from a prestige level it does not compare to NYU or Columbia. Depending on what type of firm you are targeting, it might serve you well but none of the big firms will take it seriously.

Thanks for the Baruch info, I appreciate it.

NYU is definitely better than Baruch but it does not have the same reputation as MIT or Columbia. NYU education and career service might be at a similar level (its career service might be even better than Columbia) but the University’s name simply does not match Columbia or MIT. Like it or not but the university name is a big factor for landing a job at any of the big and prestigious companies. This becomes even more severe if you consider a career outside the US

I have to enter the fray here in terms of the above poster's comment. The NYC real estate industry is pretty tight knit and insulated community. The NYU program is held in very high regard by these professionals and is often referred to in Real Estate circles as "The Program"; especially the finance and investment arm of the school. Columbia's program is known by educated employers for being a soft touch on finance and inundating their students with impractical theory, despite its ivy league umbrella credential.

Prestige whoring is a bad way to go when the name of the game is graduating with hard tangible skills and local industry connectivity.

To 44:: Sounds like you and other members of the 'unwashed' on this board are jealous of Columbia's students forever IVY LEAGUE status after they graduate. You can do IRRs and NPVs ad infinitum and you will always be second class. FACT.

KidIvy

Choosing style over substance is a sad way to go through life. Maybe it works when daddy pays the bills, but in the real world there are more important things than looking good on paper. That's why NYU grads are consistently hired to the top firms. FACT.

FACE REALITY NYU is a good but second TIER university!!!!!!!!!

Why is it so difficult to understand! Do you really think that all Columbia, MIT and Cornell student would have rather studied at NYU???

Do you really believe that???

I am a graduate of the NYU MSRE program and found it very helpful to someone who had zero experience in the industry. In fact, the main reason that I chose the NYU program was because the Columbia, Cornell, and MIT programs all required industry experience and I was applying while finishing up my undergraduate studies. NYU does have a full time day schedule, contrary to some of the posts before. I would actually recommend to anyone interested in the program that they take the daytime classes because the professors are usually staff and my biggest complaint was the inability of some of the credentialed industry leaders to actually teach.

There is definitely a mix with the quality of student in the NYU program. There seemed to be a core group of us that took the daytime classes together, all with very impressive undergraduate backgrounds; Wharton, Stanford, Bucknell, Williams, and Cornell to name a few. However as one post above mentions, the night classes mix certificate students with the Graduate Students and seemed to move at a much slower pace.

(Continued)

Also the program allows Certificate students who receive above a B average to enroll in the Masters program with out applying.

I was hired by one of the 5 largest developers in NYC before I had graduated from the program; however I attribute much of that to a very strong undergraduate portfolio and the networking capabilities afforded at NYU. Also possibly because the CEO of our company is an NYU MSRE graduate as well. The greatest benefit to the program definitely is the network of alumni and affiliates and all the industry events students have access to.

With that said, if I had it to do all over again however, I would have applied for an MBA. I currently work with graduates from the Columbia, Cornell and NYU programs, and none of us are given as much credibility as an MBA from the same school.

No one questions that Columbia, Cornell or MIT have better overall reputations as institutions of higher learning. But that doesn't mean that every program at each of those schools is necessarily better than every program at NYU. Lets use another example - medicine. While Johns Hopkins and Washington University in St. Louis are both good all-around schools, no one would place them in the top three in terms of all-around reputation. But when it comes to medical education, they are consistently ranked in the top three.

The same holds true in terms of graduate real estate educationa: NYU MSRE is very well respected and, more importantly, EFFECTIVE, at helping students gain access to the top firms in real estate finance, investment and development. NYU may be second tier in terms of overall reputation, but it stands shoulder to shoulder with the other programs mentioned in terms of the RE program.

Directed to poster number 49 et al.

Columbia has no standardized test entry requirement whatsoever.

In order to matriculate into the NYU master's program from the master's certificate program, as per the Dean Sexton Directive, students at NYU must have a 3.8+ GPA average. Word is that these Directives will be getting even tighter with the advent of this years $11 million endowment to REI and a supposed additional $10 million more down the immediate pike. The writing, of the future equity value of the degree, is on the wall.

Interesting that none of the MSRE(D) graduates are not given the same prestige as MBA holders in your Top 5 Development firm when the CEO is a NYU MSRE graduate. To compare a MSRE to an MBA is a Apples to Organge comparison. A MSRE, as least from NYU, is a Masters in Financial and Investment Analysis (relative to the RE asset classes) which provides an entirely different set of skills than those asserted by an MBA.

#52,
I'm glad you find it comforting that your future offspring will be on easy streak because of Daddy's one year Architecture degree from Columbia. This sounds like a comment from an alumni of a bottom tier undergrad program who needs to compensate.

The reality is that these programs are very good and begining to gain acceptance in the industry, but none of them, ivy or not, have reached the level of a JD or MBA.

Wow, this thread never ends, but is informative and amazingly cantankerous in spots.

Can anyone ACTUALLY WORKING IN THE NYC RE INDUSTRY tell me or weigh in on:

What would be the "ideal pedigree" of someone wanting to break into the area of NYC Real Estate Development, Real Estate IB or Acquisitions/Dispositions?

Also, what would the expected pay (and/or how would the employee be compensated - equity in deal, bonus etc) be from each of these professions/positions?

Potential_Student -

Surely you don't actually expect real information on this board? It's purely a venue for egotistical boasting. Do yourself a favor and just pick a school, any school, and then defend it blindly, preferably IN ALL CAPS.

Here's my take on your very broad questions (continued in the next post). Others will certainly disagree or have more to offer. Maybe we can move this conversation forward. Of course, KidIvy will soon reply to let us all know that whatever you do, you'll make more money if you go to Columbia.

(continued)
First, the industry is becoming increasingly professionalized, and the days of guys with no college degree thriving in any of these disciplines is fading (least so in development, where access to capital and balls can still let you make a name for yourself). You need an undergrad degree to get in the door - the better the school it's from, the more prestigious firm you'll be able to target. A graduate degree is increasingly expected. An MBA from a top school is almost always better than a focused real estate degree. For any of these areas you need a solid command of Excel (build a model from scratch, work smoothly without a mouse, understand what the numbers mean, not just how to make them add up), good communication skills (that means writing, too, not just schmoozing) and a willingness to put in some long hours, especially up front.

This is particularly true for RE IB, which is almost exclusively entered the MBA route, following a couple of years in an analyst role at a top financial firm. Getting in with a real estate-specific degree is going to be much tougher unless you already have some experience in one of these firms.

(continued)
Developers love to hire people with construction project management experience. It's way more valuable than an architecture background, even though lots of architects try to make this switch. That said, this is the most entrepreneurial of the three areas you mentioned and you can make your own opportunities with most any background.

Acquisitions/dispositions is also flexible. These roles are largely relationship driven. At the start your role will be mainly to run numbers, but the best acquisitions guys are the ones who can deliver deals that others can't. There's nothing magic about responding to a broker's OM - you need to be the guy that the owner's call directly if you want to really move up. This comes from networking, treating people fairly, and knowing your product and your markets.

(continued)
Compensation in all of these is typically salary plus bonus, with total salary in both IB and Acquisitions heavily weighted to the bonus, based on performance (personal, team, firm). Development in a smaller firm might offer an opportunity for equity in the deal but not at the entry level. At a bigger development firm, I find that the salary structure is more weighted towards salary than bonus at the lower rungs of the ladder. The big money in development is when you are doing your own deals or have a lead role in a project for a larger firm.

You forget dearest plebes that Columbia admission selection committee for MSRED is the same for the other gen ad programs and heavily scrutinizes each and every application to a very high degree, in a concerted effort to protect the Columbia brand.We all know that test scores are a paltry, one dimentional metric to view student quality which is why Columbia uses a wholistic higher quality/experience approach to judging its applicants.

The NYU REAL ESTATE Degree is only 3rd TIER

The Columbia vs. NYU debate is over. Columbia is the hands down inferior program, for the panolpy of reason listed below (of which NYU is the categorical opposite):

- no GMAT requirement
- low gpa acceptance
- one essay
- one year program with few credits relative to others
- paucity of finance education
- inability for students to cross register with the business program for electives, and vice versa
- reputation amongst Columbia students as "the red headed step child of all the programs"
- theory, not pragmatic, focused classes
- small, if not relatively impotent, alumni base

It is a sad day when the only redeeming quality a program can hang its competitive hat on is the fact that its underlying university is part of the ivy league.

HA HA HA ... Your are right ! NYU is best and Columbia University only for the looser rest...

HA HA HA - continue to life in your fantasy world...

Wow, poster 61, was that even english? Columbia sure knows how to them.

OK this is the REAL RANKING:

1. MIT
2. Columbia
3. Cornell
4. Trump Iniversity (Online REal Estate & Business Courses)
5. NYU

I would say that the Trump Online University ranks similar to the NYU's Real Estate Program

(at least the admission criteria are similar)

A more serious ranking:
A more serious ranking

1. MIT
2. Cornell/USC
4. Columbia
5. NYU

The trolls are back at it again with the last 3 messages all being posted within minutes of each other.

Phear_Me and his alter ego trolls need to abandon their internet wide NYU smear campaign and focus on their real problems - finding a job with a subpar pedigree in a lackluster job market.

Here at RD, we love how the trolls take redundant pot shots in response to substantive criticism of their real estate programs.

PS. We see they shut down the Cyburbia thread after the NYU bashing trolls (Read: Phear_Me) impersonated Heath Binder (former NYU President) to slander the school. Stop the trolling people, and focus on your own life and/or job search.

As a cyburbia member I can tell you that the reason the development thread there was shut down (and it is now reopened) is because of all of the NYU trolls like you. That was about the only good place to get help and solid information and so many idiot NYU posters came onto the site and just kept on rambling on with their agenda. I found this site looking for a new source to ask my questions and I can't believe it's the same crud all over again.

#67: Why the non sequitur posting?

How is #66 a troll when this entire board is filled with Columbia/MIT trumpeting insidious drivel?

If you are going to apportion blame, at least be reasonable. Just my $.02.

I found this board (and the other Real Deal article thread) through the Cyburbia link and have to say am not amazed at the level of belligerent and utterly "bereft of value" postings here.

It was clear from my time at Cyburbia that "Phear_Me" (correction) was launching a seemingly one-man campaign against NYU which was met with heated debate by those actually studying, living and working in the NYC metro area real estate industry and had "real life" knowledge of the program and its benefits. To call those people 'sock puppet' NYU trolls is not factually correct as many of them were long standing Cyburbia members (as evidenced by their profiles).

Your above post on this site and on the RD thread "Interest in Real Estate" is emblematic of the same cantankerous rancor and backdoor tactics which closed that thread; which makes it apparent that you are the very type of troll you are railing against.

Why is my post deleted?

"Phear_me" (excuse me its spelled funny) didn't do anything except say that NYU has low admissions standards and placement that isn't as good as the top programs like Columbia and MIT. I don't see how that's a one man campaign to derail NYU. There is no motivation there - only the NYU students have motivation because they are the ones being exposed by facts. If you cannot argue against facts then shoot the messenger. ALL of the people who attacked this guy were first time NYU posters so your claim about long time members is false. In fact, almost everyone was thanking him for the help so I dont think its anything but the different people from cyburbia who got caught there posting here anonymously. How pathetic.

#69:

Real Deal logs the isp addresses of all its posters and when it sees someone posting the same nonsense over and over (and over) again they pull their postings.

Real Deal states this policy in their Reservation of Rights section.

The numbers on this board do not track because so many of the postings by MIT and Columbia trolls who felt slighted by the Real Deal's other 'pro NYU' articles have been deleted as violative of their repetitive/abusive posting policies.

Why was my question about tracking deleted?

Regardless of the in fighting that continues here at Real Deal, today's unprecedented turmoil in the financial market's occasioned by the implosion of Lehman Brothers further underscores the DIRE NEED for solidly educated professionals in real estate finance, and the overall industry.

I believe the equity of any reputable Master's in Real Estate holder has gone through the roof given this meltdown caused by a utter paucity of knowledge and discipline in real estate fundamentals

What about UW Madison's graduate real estate program?? It used to be the best program in the country and it hasn't been mentioned at all here. Is it still comparable to Cornell/ Columbia/ MIT?

UW Maddy does not compare to Columbia which is IVY LEAGUE!!!!

Does that really mean it doesn't compare for the Masters program in Real Estate? In B-school rankings, Michigan is ranked higher than both Yale and Cornell even though they're Ivy league schools.

What will a prospective employer value more a degree from some random state school out in westbumblef#ck or a master's degree from the elite hallowed halls of Columbia. Perception my dear is reality especially in the kill or be killed world of NYC real estate. Columbia dominates.

ps. Look up the theory of the Halo Effect.

I came across this article, read these comments and now I want to kill myself for all the time I just wasted reading this garbage. Don't any of you have jobs, or lives? Aren't you busy? All of your opinions are petty, college is what you make of it. The only people who don't think that way went to Ivy Schools, and quite frankly I'd rather work along side the majority of graduates without silver spoons in their mouths. I go to NYU because I, like most people, can't afford anything else such as a fancy MBA, Law School or full time Ivy programs. We are talking marginal differences between MSRE programs and if two applicants from different schools applied for the same job, I can promise it won't come down to whether you went to NYU or Columbia. Going to either program full time is a mistake. Go part time and get the more valuable experience. Sure it takes 4 years but you obviously have nothing better to do. Can I get an Amen? And if I could afford it, I would get a Law degree from a state school.

Since when did NYU become an affordable state school of "Joe Six Pack"?

Last I checked NYU was anything BUT affordable to the unheeled masses. From a NYC'er perspective, NYU is a well known bastion of the city's rich and over privileged.

Save the "Hockey Mom" ploy for our politicians.

Kinda hard to criticize phear_me when you're his online stalker.

Seriously people, get over it, dude hasnt posted for months.

Who or what is Phear_Me?

phear_me is about the only person who knows what's going on with these MSRED programs. He posted a bunch of information and rankings and the NYU people were furious that they didn't make the top tier cut in his opinion. Since his analysis, as mentioned a gazillion times already, was so good all they could do was attack him personally and it has been a cluster ever since. I've talked with the kid on the phone and he's a cool kat. Read my essays, gave me advice, and didn't ask for anything in return.

He has an online cyber stalker who has been absolutely obsessed with him and it's the same guy posting on these forums over and over and over and over again.

Seriously this is pathetic how you people will drag someones name through the mud just because you can't face the truth about your second rate degree.

I was a member of Cyburbia and witnessed all this play out on the Real Estate Graduate School Forums section ultimately leading to Phear_Me's Censure and Banning from the site.

You can see the words BANNED below his name on every post he ever made on that site.

The reason why so many people took offense to Phear_Me and he was later vilified was because he was literally CAUGHT making "Sock Puppets" account or rather faux members to promulgate his views on/against NYU.

The ultimate banning of Phear_Me occurred at the height of the tactics with his creation of a Sock Puppet account in the name of the former Student Body President of NYU and using that stolen identity to say a whole host of negative things about the NYU program.

What Phear_Me did not account for was that the REAL NYU student body president would find out about the identity theft. Cyburbia then reviewed all the computer ISP information to find out that the faux NYU President account was opened from the same exact ISP address of Phear_Me.

[CONTINUED]

An ISP address that also had a great number of Cyburbia "members" attached to it, who, were also fervent antagonist of the NYU program.

In end Phear_Me should be thankful he has not been the recipient of any identity theft or defamation lawsuits by the aggrieved parties.